113. ANTHONY CHO CHIT ON: A SPACE BETWEEN OUTSIDE AND INSIDE.
Anthony Chit On Cho, Hot Air 2, 17/06/2019, 20:08. Image published from a series within issue 4 of M-A (A SPACE BETWEEN).
‘I recently encountered this word ‘anemoia’ which was coined by John Koenig to describe a sense of nostalgia for a time or experience one has never actually lived through. And I think through ‘activating’ these images I am trying to work through these digital memories and imagine alternative realties and speculative spaces for me to exist in.’ A.C.C.O.
The first time I saw your work, you experimented with scanning and printing images so that the effect was almost invisible, leaving a trace, a MA passing... I was amazed. How do you know when to take a picture?
This is a difficult question I feel because like many people I would say I take many different types of pictures. They serve different purposes for me but at the same time their functions don’t necessarily exist in isolation to each other, it’s murky…
The last photo I took on my phone was of some trees in Regent’s Park. I was actually trying to take a picture of a bird so I could look up what type of bird it was, but it flew away before I could manage so all you can see is a sea of green.
The photo before that was of a receipt so I could remember how much I needed to transfer my friend for my part of a meal.
And before that an empty can of Pepsi max on the sidewalk because it reminded me of someone.
But yeah, I think I know the type of picture you are referring to. Though I don’t think narrowing it down helps with the answer too much because even within this type of picture I think there are further sub-functions and motivations at play. However, I would say that I am taking them very instinctively, this kind of picture. Sometimes it’s a quick jolt you know, and I’ve taken out my phone without even realising. Other times it’s more of a slower realisation where I’ve walked past something in a hurry to get somewhere and am down the road when a thought pops up in my head that I am going to regret not taking a photo, so I walk all the way back even though I know it’s going to make me later than I already am.
Looking at some of the pictures I take I do see underlying threads. Aesthetically and in relation to atmosphere, I am often drawn to moments of stillness, reflections, light, things that make me feel warm, shadow, snow, rain, mist, glass, the ground, things that are out of focus and hidden… for me these almost have a shared tonality. The colours orange, grey and white come to mind for some reason.
Thematically, I would say that I am interested in things that seem out of place to me. Beautifully out of place. Humorously out of place. Strangely out of place. Things that ‘shouldn’t’ really be where they are. Odd colours. Odd shapes. Odd combinations. Odd coincidences. Odd parallels. Something about finding the unordinary in very ordinary moments appeals to me. I like to take images of things that I think are unnoticed by others. Things that cannot be captured again, in another time, at another place by another person.
And I think my urge to take a photo of something ultimately stems from a desperate attempt to try to hold on to that moment I have just witnessed. I think I need to take that picture because I don’t want to be the only one to have experienced that moment. Because there is a loneliness to that. Maybe I take photos to ease that loneliness. Almost to confirm that there are others that see what I see or at least have others have the opportunity to see what I saw.
Sorry I’m not sure I really answered the question. I think I’ve kind of gone around the edges of the question and talked about the why and the what so as to allude to the when.
When you sent me the pictures to choose for the new issue of M-A, you sent hundreds of images and in looking at them I thought how rooted in instinct your decision-making is - how as a whole the work felt that you were trying to understand something...
I resonate with that a lot. I definitely feel that one of the main reasons I take pictures is to understand what I am feeling and thinking at a specific time period because those are not always so obvious to me. And by observing what and why I am drawn to something I can better understand where I am at. Which will in turn inform the direction of a project or something. Kind of like a mind map. I use photography, specifically my phone, because it’s quick and easy, allowing me to be as intuitive as I can be. It’s almost like I’m engaging and collecting from an ‘outside’ to bring into an ‘inside’ where I can slow down and process the information I have accumulated. This is why I am not actually that bothered with getting the ‘perfect shot’ first time like maybe a photographer would do. I always take more images than I need to. The curation part of the process happens after taking the images if I do end up using them directly somehow in my work. I want to have as many options as possible to choose from and work with for when the ‘why’ is established.
I think it’s important to note how tied to a specific time these images are for me. Like how driven they actually are by what is on my mind within a loose time period despite me taking the shots instinctively. It’s often quite fun trying to identify the ‘seeds’ or triggers. For example, I recently took a picture of a map of the Northern Line- the ones you see at the bottom of the stairs before the platforms. It was actually two maps where a newer version was peeling away revealing an older map underneath. But it was slightly offset so you would have the same stations repeating creating this glitch effect. Roughly half an hour before that I was having a conversation about ‘palimpsests’ with some friends. For me, there is a relationship there. Though I can’t say for sure I wouldn’t have taken the picture if the conversation didn’t happen.
Yeah, but that tie to a specific time… it means that looking back at some of the images I sent, a lot of them don’t resonate with me the same way anymore. We are constantly changing of course. Though some persist. And perhaps, standing the test of time, these are the ones that really say something about me at my core…
Have you reached a point in your process where you can appreciate what the work as a whole tells you?
I don’t really see my works as wholes as such but as focused/saturated moments of something bigger. I merely function as a kind of mediator. The work and I just happen to share a set time together before it will inevitably embark on its own trajectory. This kind of relates to the fact that though I find what ‘my’ work tells me about myself and my relationship to the world useful, in a way I am much more interested in how other people perceive and engage with it and what I can learn from that.
A recent example of this that has stuck with me was when I was having a conversation with Prem Sahib about a work that I made where I essentially frame a kitchen towel. The idea first came about as I was painting where I noticed that the paper towel that I used to clean my brushes had these decorative swirls on them. And I found that as beautiful as whatever I was painting. I was interested in reversing the object of labour within the framed object, so I made the frame itself from scratch out of a really nice board of cherry. Framing something is a charged act- it suggests value, scarcity and a desire to preserve. I used a grey board for the mat, purely for aesthetic reasons. However, Prem pointed out that this further evoked the idea of scarcity because visually it alluded to the cardboard tube at the end of the roll… that single comment completely shifted how I understood the work.
Curation is something you have spoken of, your work focuses on atmosphere alot - what spaces draw you back?
Curation is definitely something I think a lot about. Again, I make lots of different types of works but I think in general I am trying to compose a tonality in my work that is concentrated but unstable. Like an atmosphere that is almost at the grasp (understood) but constantly escapes you. Unstable in the sense that there are multiple conflicting/non-sensical points of entry and spaces of occupation. Tonality is a word I resonate with a lot because though a lot of the times my work does not directly reference music, it is a space that inspires me a lot, methodologically and thematically.
Recently, I have also been exploring digital spaces. In the same way that I take photos, I have been doing these ‘digs’ using randomly generated prompts and taking screenshots intuitively on platforms like Reddit and YouTube. I have been compiling an archive of these images and trying to process them by transcribing them into paintings. I am not so interested in the paintings themselves but the very slow looking that the act of painting promotes. I am interested in the stories, narratives and parallels that I draw from these images through this slow looking and am currently working on ‘activating’ them into more sculptural/installation works.
I recently encountered this word ‘anemoia’ which was coined by John Koenig to describe a sense of nostalgia for a time or experience one has never actually lived through. And I think through ‘activating’ these images I am trying to work through these digital memories and imagine alternative realties and speculative spaces for me to exist in.
What are your signals for change?
We are constantly changing, whether we like it or not. For me, it’s important that my work reflects, respects, and accepts that. I try to maintain a willingness and openness to critically engage with myself and my practice.
Some of the signals that tell me it’s time to check in with myself are: familiarity, comfort, patterns—those moments when I begin to understand too much, when I think I know what I want to do next. When I’m no longer on the verge of drowning, but simply floating. That’s when I know something needs to shift.
Anthony Chit On Cho, Hot Air 1, 17/06/2019. Image published from a series within issue 4 of M-A (A SPACE BETWEEN).
Anthony Cho Chit On is a contributing artist to Issue 4 of M-A (A SPACE BETWEEN), available from maaspacebetween.com along with 18 stockists including The Serpentine bookshop, Magculture Magalleria, Jeu de Paume and Dover Street Market.
A selection of new works by Anthony Cho Chit On is currently on public display as part of The Royal College of Art Summer Show, RCA Battersea campus, 1 Hester Road, London SW11 4AY. Until 22 June 12-6 PM.